Curse

Aljasha · Sep 23, 2010, 11:38 AM // 11:38

It seems some of you guys are really addicted to the game. The best way to show companies that you dont like how they treat you, is to don't give them any more of your money. Ranting on forums over such an old story gets you nowhere.

Skyy High · Sep 23, 2010, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Please tell me of an pre-announced game update released on time since EoTN. Now, when you've figured out that there isn't one you might realize that people are getting sick and tired of the constant excuses that Anet seems fall back on when they delay/postpone updates for weeks or even months. It's not the devs that are the problem, it's the CR/PR staff that refuses to do their job and instead releases interviews with vague deadlines mentioned.

And before anyone responds to this post with "This is a free game" garbage, it's not. Anet has been trying to release content to hype up GW2 to sell more of their products.

Yeah, see, that's why they don't release deadlines, so that you can't say that an update wasn't released on-time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Like I said above, it's poor planning, period. Either they randomly just decided they wanted to change Costume Brawl at the last minute, or they didn't realize they should have started their Costume Brawl "homework" way in advance. The fact is that Halloween/Costume Brawl is the same time every year. In one instance, Anet doesn't have a yearly goal and makes it up as they go along. In the other, they just suck at planning. Either way, Anet is half-assing it.

Or it's taking longer than they expected. Like I said, crazy, to consider that maybe they're trying to do something and it's taking longer to complete than they should have given themselves...it's almost like they're human or something!

Quote:

Correction, only about 2 and a half of those years we had the whole of Anet "devoted" to the game. Right now there are what, 4 or 5 people to do everything with regards to game updates and events? Sorry, but actual human beings need to be called out on their shortcommings, especially when a whole company screws the game they've already made and its' original fans.

So you'd rather they left half of the team working on GW1, and have GW2 come out...sometime this decade?

Sorry, no. They told us flat out with the release of GW:EN that most of the team was working on GW2, that Utopia had been cancelled, and anyone who didn't get the message "be happy with what you get, this is gonna take a while" wasn't paying attention.

Honestly, you're about 2 years too late with these complaints. GW2 info is ramping up, so if you want new content, it's likely that you have a year or less to wait. If that's not good enough for you, <angry time> play another f***ing game. That's what you were supposed to do if you got bored, remember? No sub fee. Come back when something interesting happens, but wtf is the point of just sitting around here doing some arm-chair programming about what you think they're doing and how long it should be taking? Does this make you happy, really? Is it contributing in any way to anything? I can't tell you the former, but as for the latter: no, it's not. It's not criticism, it's b****ing, and it's getting absurd. No, it's been absurd, now it's just getting sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miskav

You'd rather accept evil than rise up against it?
Sounds like cowardice to me.

Hahahaha.
If ANet is "evil" in your books, you have quite the sheltered life little man.

snaek · Sep 23, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

this is really sad. costume brawl was good enough as it was already. honestly, how many people here can say that they desperately want to see a costume brawl update?

to the person that said dervish update doesn't affect everyone: i'm just hoping to see skill balance of any kind. i don't play a dervish either, but i still want to see some skill updates. its just a shame that anet decided to waste 4+ months on a lackluster dervish-only update. remember the times when they used to update multiple classes at the same time?

in a way though, the dervish update should affect everyone. if you don't play dervish, you should at least have a few friends that do. if you don't play with your friends, or have no friends (gw is a multiplayer game? wait what?), then you'll at least come across some monsters in pve that are using the new skills. no matter how you look at it, the skill balance is more of a big deal than the costume brawl update.

Cuilan · Sep 23, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

remember the times when they used to update multiple classes at the same time?

I remember those very well and we're having profession/attribute specific skill updates because of them.

NerfHerder · Sep 23, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

On a positive note, at least the CB skill updates will have the live team looking at the meta game as a whole. Hopefully, this will give them a few good ideas to add into the Dervish update or future ones. So even if you dont care about CB, its not a total loss.

Meridon · Sep 23, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

On a sidenote, something I just thought of:

Isn't it rather odd to spend over a month do just design 2-4 costumes, and making 8 crappy but balanced builds?

It looks rather disproportional to me. I mean, sure the codex builds change every year, but by now that's mostly because some of the skills have been updated. You'd say it gets easier every year.

reaper with no name · Sep 24, 2010, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Warrior's Endurance W/D laughs at any other class using a scythe in pve.

You forgot Critscythe. Critscythe beats Enduring Scythe in pure damage output. The reason Enduring Scythe is worth using is because it beats out anything short of critscythe while still being able to use SY.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Sep 24, 2010, 07:43 AM // 07:43

tbh, i dont give a damm about CB, or derv

(although derv is my best melee char)
but i would like to see more changes in GW, if its good that is

heroes did keep the game alive, but makes people leave a bit later, i like to see what the hero change will be, mr Stumme did mention both "7 hero teams" and "hero changes", so must be different points

what can they change about heroes except for giving us 7 heroes teams?... all i can think about it giving them pve-only skills, but i doubt they do that

and a new hero? mini junundu?

or maybe devourer?
i dunno, maybe a snowman, lol, just dont let it be a white mantle :O

for the ones hoping for another race, just take a look at this page:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Races

anyway, what i like to see is, seeing the update very soon
most announced updates take so long, that they sometimes change plans and give us something else

lets hope its something we all will like (or at least most of the players left in GW)
as for the new hero, i'd like to see new quests with him/her/it

ps. i was thinking about something else than 7 heroes team, i hope to see more ideas, instead of changing it into a 7 hero thread, which we already have

Missing HB · Sep 24, 2010, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Making 7 heroes allowed will lead to several problems though :
- terrible abusing build ( see what 3 discord heroes can do , thus imagine people add rt/n or even mo/n ...)
- in the few areas left where people dare to form teams for xx quest , they might rather take heroes to form faster than real players
- ( minor problem ) pvp players might get angry , why would pve would even more easier to play whereas you need to wait hours to play some pvp arenas...

There are some positive points too though ( being able to run the team build you want in pve and when you want , being able to " try " some elite areas , ..) , but i don't believe this will be really done ...

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Sep 24, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Making 7 heroes allowed will lead to several problems though :
- terrible abusing build ( see what 3 discord heroes can do , thus imagine people add rt/n or even mo/n ...)
- in the few areas left where people dare to form teams for xx quest , they might rather take heroes to form faster than real players
- ( minor problem ) pvp players might get angry , why would pve would even more easier to play whereas you need to wait hours to play some pvp arenas...

There are some positive points too though ( being able to run the team build you want in pve and when you want , being able to " try " some elite areas , ..) , but i don't believe this will be really done ...

i said:
"ps. i was thinking about something else than 7 heroes team, i hope to see more ideas, instead of changing it into a 7 hero thread, which we already have"

sry to go offtopic, but i wanted to make something clear
go find that topic for more replies

mage767 · Sep 24, 2010, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

You forgot Critscythe. Critscythe beats Enduring Scythe in pure damage output. The reason Enduring Scythe is worth using is because it beats out anything short of critscythe while still being able to use SY.

Zealous Vow Scythe is similar to Endurance Scythe, and can produce even more damage output on dervishes, and STILL use SY. Only issue left is that dervishes are still a squishy class compared to wars.

dancing gnome · Sep 24, 2010, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Zealous Vow Scythe is similar to Endurance Scythe, and can produce even more damage output on dervishes, and STILL use SY. Only issue left is that dervishes are still a squishy class compared to wars.

I think the biggest problem most dervish builds face and the class overall to be honest is enchantments. They require you to stop moving in the middle of combat to recast enchantments, if you have several enchantments this can be incredibly annoying.

One of the biggest challenges for a melee class is the need to close distance with their opponent before they can begin to damage them. Having to constantly stop all actions and stand in place, even if only for half a second, is incredibly annoying for a melee class.

I hope when they spoke about a new mechanic for the dervish class they were speaking about a removal of enchantments and replacing them with something like blessings or skills (similar to how warrior's endurance works). It's also amusing that the campaign the dervish is from is the one it is least effective in (your enchantments become stripped every time you aggro a new mob).

aspi · Sep 24, 2010, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Zealous Vow Scythe is similar to Endurance Scythe, and can produce even more damage output on dervishes, and STILL use SY. Only issue left is that dervishes are still a squishy class compared to wars.

But critical scythe sins are still the highest damage dealers with a scythe. Same problem there because sins are also quite squishy. Even with the +25 armour from critical agility.

reaper with no name · Sep 24, 2010, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Zealous Vow Scythe is similar to Endurance Scythe, and can produce even more damage output on dervishes, and STILL use SY. Only issue left is that dervishes are still a squishy class compared to wars.

Are you trying to say that zealous vow beats enduring scythe? I hope you aren't, because it's not even close to true. Enduring scythe is something like 10-15% more damaging than zealous vow builds. Enduring scythe alone practically renders the entire dervish profession worthless.

Of course, this does point out yet another issue. If WE were nerfed tomorrow, all W/Ds would do is take 2 points out of strength for wind prayers, use zealous vow, and still beat the dervish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

I think the biggest problem most dervish builds face and the class overall to be honest is enchantments. They require you to stop moving in the middle of combat to recast enchantments, if you have several enchantments this can be incredibly annoying.

One of the biggest challenges for a melee class is the need to close distance with their opponent before they can begin to damage them. Having to constantly stop all actions and stand in place, even if only for half a second, is incredibly annoying for a melee class.

I hope when they spoke about a new mechanic for the dervish class they were speaking about a removal of enchantments and replacing them with something like blessings or skills (similar to how warrior's endurance works). It's also amusing that the campaign the dervish is from is the one it is least effective in (your enchantments become stripped every time you aggro a new mob).

The need to stop moving to cast the enchantments that you strip is only one of the things that makes enchantment juggling a terrible mechanic.

Other (much bigger) problems:
1) In this game, melee damage > caster damage. Enchantments deal caster damage (if any at all) at melee range, so they suffer from the worst of both worlds, with nothing to compensate for it.
2) Enchantment juggling directly competes with melee damage, which is very overpowered. Remember, we're talking about enchantments and enchantment-stripping attacks competing with classes that can routinely pump out 100+ dps to single targets and 50+ dps to AoE targets.
3) Enchantments suffer from long cast times and aftercast delays that annihilate any hope of decent (let alone good) dps.
4) Long recharge times on enchantments remove the possibility of sustained dps.
5) Enchantments which deal damage generally do so at the beginning of the enchantment, not the end, which does not promote stripping.
6) Mysticism does not offer anywhere near the energy necessary to fuel enchantment juggling. At the very least, it has to be able to make the enchantments being juggled free (alternatively, enchantments are too expensive).
7) Enchantment removal skills remove any enchantment, not just offensive dervish ones, which would open up potential for abuse if enchantment juggling ever became a viable mechanic.
8) Enchantment-stripping attacks, like enchantments themselves, are simply not worth it. Their damage is laughable, their activations are too long, and their recharge times are pathetic.
9) Non-attack-based enchantment removals such as Signet of Pious Light would open up abuse potential if enchantment juggling were useful.
10) There are no safeguards to prevent enchantment-removal skills from accidentally removing important enchantments that were cast on you at the wrong time (such as Protective Spirit).

Until these issues are resolved, enchantment juggling will always be pathetic. To be worthwhile...well, it'll have to be at least better than the other options currently out there for dealing a lot of damage to multiple targets at close range. Good luck with that.

Jk Arrow · Sep 24, 2010, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The need to stop moving to cast the enchantments that you strip is only one of the things that makes enchantment juggling a terrible mechanic.

Other (much bigger) problems:
1) In this game, melee damage > caster damage. Enchantments deal caster damage (if any at all) at melee range, so they suffer from the worst of both worlds, with nothing to compensate for it.
2) Enchantment juggling directly competes with melee damage, which is very overpowered. Remember, we're talking about enchantments and enchantment-stripping attacks competing with classes that can routinely pump out 100+ dps to single targets and 50+ dps to AoE targets.
3) Enchantments suffer from long cast times and aftercast delays that annihilate any hope of decent (let alone good) dps.
4) Long recharge times on enchantments remove the possibility of sustained dps.
5) Enchantments which deal damage generally do so at the beginning of the enchantment, not the end, which does not promote stripping.
6) Mysticism does not offer anywhere near the energy necessary to fuel enchantment juggling. At the very least, it has to be able to make the enchantments being juggled free (alternatively, enchantments are too expensive).
7) Enchantment removal skills remove any enchantment, not just offensive dervish ones, which would open up potential for abuse if enchantment juggling ever became a viable mechanic.
8) Enchantment-stripping attacks, like enchantments themselves, are simply not worth it. Their damage is laughable, their activations are too long, and their recharge times are pathetic.
9) Non-attack-based enchantment removals such as Signet of Pious Light would open up abuse potential if enchantment juggling were useful.
10) There are no safeguards to prevent enchantment-removal skills from accidentally removing important enchantments that were cast on you at the wrong time (such as Protective Spirit).

Until these issues are resolved, enchantment juggling will always be pathetic. To be worthwhile...well, it'll have to be at least better than the other options currently out there for dealing a lot of damage to multiple targets at close range. Good luck with that.

This is pretty accurate. I tried making a few derv builds with Avatars, enchants for IAS, health steal, AoE damage, etc. and while you can pump up a derv where auto attacks are ridiculously high damage, the time investment to apply and reapply those enchantments decreases the DPS back to one without hardly any enchants. You start to think why bother.

Mysticism will probably be changed so I'm curious to how that mechanic will work in a derv's favor. Perhaps reducing cast time of enchantments, energy gain for casting enchantments and/or removal of enchantments, reduction of enchantment recharge...I'm sure there are tons of other ideas already brought up. All of these could result in massive abuse with different secondaries.

Tying the number of enemies hit with a scythe was also brought up and would have to be in the Mysticism line rather than the scythe line if it were to benefit dervs only. I don't think this will ever happen nor would I like it to happen.

I'm sure there is a lot of head scratching going on with this update and I'm not surprised they moved on to something else to let their brains cool down. Doesn't mean it's not disappointing though.

reaper with no name · Sep 25, 2010, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Come to think of it, since they've put the derv update on hold, this would actually be a great time for them to give us a preview (or even a pre-preview) of the derv update, even if thus far it's nothing more than conceptual ideas, if only to get some feedback on what might work and what might not, since they'd then have plenty of time to reflect on it while doing the CB stuff.

End · Sep 25, 2010, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Come to think of it, since they've put the derv update on hold, this would actually be a great time for them to give us a preview (or even a pre-preview) of the derv update, even if thus far it's nothing more than conceptual ideas, if only to get some feedback on what might work and what might not, since they'd then have plenty of time to reflect on it while doing the CB stuff.

I would actually not be pissed off as much if they would do this. I mean at least tell us what your working on. The numbers and what not don't have to be exact. Like do you plan on adding on AoE damage when a enchant ends on dervishs? Plan on linking the number of enimies hit to mysticism. Reduceing the casting time and/or after cast on enchants based on mystism? I mean give us something to live off at least if you aren't working on it. Maybe give us a reason to start working on our dervs now.

reaper with no name · Sep 25, 2010, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Adding damage on enchantments ending wouldn't do anything. Even if you dealt +3 damage per rank of mysticism to each foe around you each time an enchantment ended on you, you'd need enchantments ending on you every 2 seconds just to close the distance between zealous vow and enduring scythe. And if dervishes could get enchantments to end on them that often, they wouldn't need zealous vow in the first place (never mind the problem of scatter). A better idea would be to make the energy gain of mysticism affect everyone in the party (probably with the same limitation as SR), but even that's iffy.

Reducing casting and recharge times for worthless enchantments won't make them worth using.

In any case, it looks like Anet is either going to try to bring back enchantment juggling (if so, they better go all in, because half-assing it would be nothing but a waste of time) or trying to give the dervish a whole new set of mechanics, rather than just making the dervish better at what it currently does.

dancing gnome · Sep 25, 2010, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Adding damage on enchantments ending wouldn't do anything. Even if you dealt +3 damage per rank of mysticism to each foe around you each time an enchantment ended on you, you'd need enchantments ending on you every 2 seconds just to close the distance between zealous vow and enduring scythe. And if dervishes could get enchantments to end on them that often, they wouldn't need zealous vow in the first place (never mind the problem of scatter). A better idea would be to make the energy gain of mysticism affect everyone in the party (probably with the same limitation as SR), but even that's iffy.

Reducing casting and recharge times for worthless enchantments won't make them worth using.

In any case, it looks like Anet is either going to try to bring back enchantment juggling (if so, they better go all in, because half-assing it would be nothing but a waste of time) or trying to give the dervish a whole new set of mechanics, rather than just making the dervish better at what it currently does.

In the Kill 10 Rats interview John said they were looking at a new mechanic for the dervish. I hope that mechanic replaces enchantments (and thus how mysticism works) to allow them to be more fluid in combat. The way it works atm, dervish builds look really cumbersome with enchantment recasts and after cast delays. I would love the new mechanic to act similair to a self-stripable warrior's endurance type thing; opponents can't strip it and it has no activation time. This would radically rework all dervish skills allowing you to buff and nerf them as needed to work with a more fluid self buffing mechanic than what we currently have.

reaper with no name · Sep 25, 2010, 06:04 AM // 06:04

But that would only address a couple of the fundamental problems with the dervish. The recharge times, lack of damage, and horrible removal attacks would still make the new mechanic just as useless, unless they too were addressed.